Josh Johnson wants to do something different with “Channel Black”

“I’m just going to try it first at a lot of things for a while and then see what happens.”

Josh Johnson is a master at juggling projects. He’s one of those guys that you just can’t help but envy his creative output, as you’re sitting there enjoying it. Last year, he managed to come out with a new stand-up special, #Hashtag. It was immediately followed by a new mix-tape album, Elusive. Not to mention, he’s got a podcast The Josh Johnson Show. Plus, he’s got a day job as a writer on The Daily Show.

And on top of all that, he’s got a really interesting new album he put out, Channel Black. The album is set up as if you’re tuning into a radio station, and you’re hearing some of the best rising black comedians out there right now. Some of the comics featured includes Johnson, Randall Otis, Ashton Womack, CJ Hunt, and Dulcé Sloan. The album is then intercut with famous activists delivering incredible speeches. It’s definitely in one of its kind territory!

We recently spoke to Johnson who talked about the new album, how he manages to handle so many different and unique projects, what he plans to do in the future, how he wanted to tackle talking about COVID in his special, and the surprise reaction his podcast has gotten.

Let’s jump right into it. Tell me about the genesis for this new album, Channel Black.
I’ve always been interested in the idea of… When you look at mixtapes, there’s a lot of different plays with theme and genre. But this is the first one that I think has, like a strong theme to it. That it’s almost more of an audio magazine type thing, where you could look at it as being the audio version of having articles and then having interest pieces and everything.

And I think that mixing the lesser known speeches from the black thought leaders and activists was both like, a way in for people that feels accessible. And, then in between the comedy as well, each thing works as a palate cleanser for the next. So having it broken up, whether it’s with a song or speech, differentiates the comics from each other.

That’s why there’s something different in between each comedian. And then from there, I really enjoy everyone that I got to work with. For this I’ve always looked up to and thought the world of them as comedians, so the fact that I got to get all of them on one project is just like, I don’t know, just makes it extra dope for me.

Because, you know, obviously they’re friends and everything. But I think that they also sort of saw the vision and how this works not just as a comedy album, but as an overall art piece, and playing with and expanding the way that we take in audio as comedians.

And that must have been like an interesting pitch trying to describe it. Like it’s something that you know you have to see the finished product. So you can get the idea. But once you see the finished product, it all kind of comes together then.
And that’s also a little nerve wracking. Because then sometimes you finish the product, and it doesn’t all come together. And then you’re like, Okay, everyone that was looking at me weird was onto something. So I’m glad that it all worked out.

Right? Absolutely. I just love that approach. And there was one in particular I did want to talk about, which I love so much. I love the Dick Gregory tribute. I thought that was so cool that you were able to work that in there, and kind of pay tribute to him in there. I mean, I think it’s safe to say he was an influential figure for a lot of comedians. Like, it doesn’t matter who you are.
Yeah, because not only was he so early on ahead of his time, with what he was doing, because he was one of those people that was mixing the use of his celebrity and power that came with activism. And so early on, before I think other people realize they really could. And then also he bridges the gap where all the contemporary people are comedians and all of the, you know, historical audio tracks are from black activists, and then he was both, you know. So he sort of works as this bridge in between the two, past and present.

And then also, I think that his overall speech was something that I think more people should hear more often. A lot of times, there’s a narrative, or there’s at least a thought process in play, where people just want something handed to them. And I don’t think that that is overwhelmingly the case. I think what’s actually happening is that people want the opportunity to get something for themselves, because then they’ll know how to get it again. And I think he’s pointing to a much deeper problem and solution that still isn’t fixed today. That if you cut people in and you teach them how to be entrepreneurs, and you also give them the opportunity that comes with something that other people get naturally. Whether it’s by accident or birth or through knowing a person.

I think that a lot of people, completely outside of any sort of systemic issue in America, forget how much of success. And the way that people move throughout the world is luck. And so I think that taking a little bit of luck out of that and actually targeting very specific opportunities to people who can learn something is one, that’s something that nobody can get mad at. Now you look crazy if you’re just upset that people are learning something.

And then also it’s a method that insists upon itself because then if I learned something I can teach you, I can teach the person next to me, they can teach someone. As opposed to this very short sighted idea of just throwing money at the problem. Because one, that money will dry up. And two, the people who get it sometimes don’t know what to do with it, or it’s not used in the best way to aid in their fulfillment. So I think that what he’s talking about in the track was also really, really important to me.

It’s a very important thing to say, definitely! And so with all the activists you tied in, were there any that you wanted to include that didn’t make the cut?
I think that in the future – because I definitely plan on doing it again with different comics and different – I want to expand the universe of the project to the point where I get to interview contemporary activists, and maybe even have throwback comedy. So maybe there’s an album that for its time didn’t really hit, but there’s a couple of jokes on that I think are hilarious. I’d love to put them on there with people who are actually doing activism now and have a quick, short interview with them or something. I want to expand the overall world.

So there’s not a track, or a sample that I think the book is closed on. But we definitely had a piece by Hank Aaron, that I really wanted to get on there. And I think with more time maybe we could have, but the estate didn’t engage with us. And so I think that in the future, especially seeing as to the success of this one, it’ll be an easier pitch next time. As opposed to this thing of like, “Hey, there’s this thing that doesn’t exist yet. I promise. It’s cool.”

There are some that some of their speeches aren’t as well known, even though they’re more popular. So there are incredible speeches and quotes from like MLK and Malcolm X that – even though they’re some of the most prominent and famous black activists, civil rights leaders – there are still speeches that people don’t know that they gave. And so I would love to get that in the future. And really, it’s almost a thing of, “How do I condense down each time?”, you know? Because I don’t want to put it out in a way that feels too long to digest. So it’s like, every time I do it, it’s more gonna be about what makes the most distinct sort of audio magazine in that way. As opposed to ”What can I get?”

Right. Absolutely. And I love that after the year you had last year, with a new special and album coming out, that now you took the time to champion some of the people and things that you like.
Oh, thank you, man. Yeah, it’s also one of those things where it’s like the true influence is about being able to be a spotlight. So I think a lot of people see influence as the influence they can get for themselves, or the way that they can stretch their legs show how clever they are. But I think the real influence – in culture, in comedy, in anything – is being able to spotlight the people who you think are also amazing, you know?

Like, I’ve worked with people that obviously don’t need my help showcasing that. But then also there are people who I think for some of them – I don’t want to speak too soon – but I think that for like Ashton and CJ, this is the first like album comedy wise that they’ve been a part of. So that was a big honor for me being able to showcase them and put people on to the fact that these comedians are amazing and the people that got to come do it. Like, obviously Dulce is a close friend and everything but still, it’s so important to have her. It’s incredible to have Randall, you know. So the whole thing felt really good because it felt like I could also then be like, “If you like what I make, I think you’ll also like what I like, and I really like these people.”

And have you been seeing a bit of that in the feedback since it came out?
A little bit! You know, what I find is dope with things like Elusive and Channel Black, is that they are a little bit unconventional. The fact that people are listening at all is like, I’m winning, you know? Like, I think that I think it’s one of those things where the fact that I put it together and it doesn’t follow a strict format, but people still really enjoyed it., it’s like, “Okay, I’m on to something I can improve from here.” So the feedback that I’ve got so far has been really overwhelmingly that they like the direction of the of the project and it lets me know that the audio magazine approach is the way to go in the future with more projects like this.

Because I think that we are we’re becoming a very playlist culture. I mean, we pretty much are. But we’re in such a playlist mode sometimes that to digest an entire project in one sitting – that’s not from someone who’s mega famous like Drake or The Weeknd or Kanye – I think some people get a little discouraged by that. Because they’re like, “How am I going to get people to listen to me for like, 40 minutes?”. And I think that having things that spice up that overall experience is the way to go.

I think that obviously, the album that came out from my special I’m very happy with everything, and I’m super grateful to everyone who’s sat and listened to that whole thing in one sitting. That’s awesome. But I think it’s also going to be an easier thing to listen to when something is unconventional and it gives you it gives you twists and turns in the overall journey. I’m essentially trying to make my own hour of what, to me, is the dopest radio station that could exist. A radio station that mixes like comedy, dope beats. I will never be able to fully express how much it means to me when I have like Mike Realm and Point Lobo working with me. Mike is so good with doing the beat that really matches the tone. He has a real talent for it, and then Point Lobo on all the engineering and mastering. The way he mixed, both like really got the comedy synced up beautifully.

And then also with those tracks, he had to do a lot of work that I don’t know if other people would have put in. Like the Marcus Garvey track is 100 years old. So the actual quality of the raw track is terrible. So then he went in, and he did his sort of like audio surgery on it to make it succinct and then to fit in with Mike’s beat. And so when I get feedback of people enjoying the mixtape that hear some of those things and hear how much work went into it, then that means a lot.

You can tell that, 100 percent. And going off of people listening to your last special as an album. Do you think it makes a difference when someone is listening to something like this, which was meant to be an album, versus a special that was just released as an album?
I’m trying to think of the best way to describe this. Okay, so, on the cusp of email becoming a thing, right? It’s not as if the world was was ready or was willing to just switch over to email fully. We were still using the regular mail as we were using the email. We still do that today. Even though now way more emails get sent than snail mail. And for me, when I look at my independent projects, which are Elusive and Channel Black, and there’s more to come this year, those things for me have an aspect of, I think I’m onto something new and fun.

But I’ll never leave behind the thing that is still conventional, still how most people digest their comedy, and still a fun listen. You know, I’m still gonna put out straight comedy albums that just have the comedy, and it’s for an hour, and it’s like the way that you are used to it. But simultaneously, I’m also going to be trying to push things and make things that people aren’t used to, or that have a nice little bit of spice to them that people look back and be like, “I just enjoyed that thing. I hope more of that thing happens.”

It’s always been a dream to be on the cusp of things like that. You can only be best or be first and I don’t know, I think it would be a tall order to call myself best. So I’m just going to try it first at a lot of things for a while and then see what happens.

Wow. I love that! And talking about that last special, I just rewatched it. And I have to say, you spend a lot of time talking about COVID in it. Of course now it still holds up well. But when you’re doing something like that, do you worry about whether it’s dating itself by talking about it?
I mean, I was very worried. I also think that for all the things that COVID is going to be and turn into, I think that, obviously I want everyone to be safe, healthy, and for our lives to move on. But I think that as a memory, this is going to be a thing that we never forget, because in a lot of ways, it stole two whole years of people’s lives. Even if you were only in lockdown for eight months, it still took away your sense of normalcy. I think for a lot of people, it’s just now returning.

And I tried to not dwell on it, be too specific, and more use it to talk about my relationship with social and technology throughout the pandemic. Because I think that’s something that will be lasting. I think that even when there comes a day where people don’t remember the pandemic – and the way we’re going to remember it – I think there’s still going to be something to be said for the relationship we have with how people look at us, and what type of outside approval we seek. Which is why so many of those bits are about the pandemic, in relation to social and then my reaction to it.

And also I believe that I’m going to put out many more specials. So then as far as a catalog goes, I was okay with sacrificing some of the time within the special in the long term to not seem completely devoid of reason in the moment. It was May I think of 2021 If I had got up there and done the hour that I initially sold to Comedy Central as what was going to be my special, I think I would have seemed like really tone deaf and just like deeply out of touch. I think the jokes would have been funny. But I think it’s a very different thing to get up there in 2021 and be like, “Oh, I just got back from hanging out with my family and oh boy.” And then being in 2021 like “I just got back from hanging out with my family and oh boy.” It’s like those two very different connotations in 2019 and 2021.

And so I think I had to rewrite, and I had to write a lot of bits that were so much comedy as of the moment that I think sometimes worrying too much about being timeless will work to your detriment in the long run. The best you can do as a comedian is have crowd control of the audience in front of you. You can’t control five years from now, you can’t control the next year, you know. So I think all you can do is put out the best special that maybe you don’t feel like is timeless, but the best that you can for the moment you’re in. And I think that I feel confident that I’ve at least got a good 10 years out of the reminiscing of COVID. You know, I don’t think we’ll be in COVID times for 10 years. I just think that if someone’s like, I remember 2020, even 10 years now people be like, “Yeah, I was supposed to be a freshman in college, and that ruined it.”

Totally. The specials I’ve seen that were taped since then that DON’T address it seems like there’s an elephant in the room.
Yeah. Yeah, it’s exactly like when you are visiting a club. So it’s a club, that’s not where you live. To not say anything about the city you’re in, or the people you met that day… I understand the the power and sometimes the inclination to just go out there and do your set, as you’ve written it for people to enjoy it. But yeah, every once in a while, when you just go up bare and you just start doing your set that you do in every city, sometimes the audience feels like you’re on autopilot, or they’re like, “Oh, what is it? Do you care that I’m here?” And I think that sometimes when you do go out and you make it a thing of like, “Hey, we’re all in this together, and I’m enjoying your city. And I’m glad that you’re here, look at this person,” like whatever the thing is, and that was my way of trying to do that. And then veering out of COVID for the second half, you know?

It was universal. Everyone knew it! Jumping around a bit. You seem like you always have different wonderful and creative plates spinning. Do you ever think “Hey I’m doing too much” in terms of how much you put out? Does that ever become something you worry about?
You know, I I would definitely worry if I was doing too much if I wasn’t enjoying the project as it was happening. I think that for me – and this isn’t this isn’t necessarily to say that it’s because it’s mine, it’s just the idea, right? So for something like Channel Black, I was like, I would really like to see that. I would really like for that thing to exist, you know. So instead of looking at it as like, This is Josh’s project that he’s putting out, I’d look at it as if I had a table and no chairs. It’s like, I would just like to live in a world where I have chairs, so let me build these chairs.

And I think that I look at my projects like that. And so it doesn’t feel like too much. The beautiful thing about the internet is it’s very big. So I’m not shoving what I make down anyone’s throat. It’s very easy to avoid me, you know. And so as a result of that, I think that I’m putting things out at the pace that I am; one for the people who will enjoy it coming out at the pace that it does, and two, because I don’t want to lay down something that I really believe should exist just for the sake of not overwhelming an audience. I think that it would be overwhelming if I was like, “Hi, I’m Josh! Nice to meet you. Check out my special, Hashtag, and when you’re done with that, check out my mixtape, Elusive, and Channel Black just came out. And that’s also on all those streaming platforms.” It’s like… sure, but I think that’s too much.

But I think if you’re just making things and you’re sitting enjoying yourself and people want to join you, I think that’s a beautiful ride to be on. Who knows if they’ll all have amazing returns? I hope they do. But I think that it’s more important to me that they exist than anything else.

You’re not making something to move onto the next stage of your career.
Because you’ll also never be able to know that. Like you actually won’t choose what that is. It’s like when you’re doing anything, sometimes you make a movie, you tell a joke, you post something, and it’s nothing even though you love it. It’s your favorite one. And then sometimes the most random thing people just connect with you on. So, you know, I think that to a certain degree, I might get a couple extra chances, because I’m putting out different types of projects. But I think that for the most part, this is the best way that I can think of to enjoy my life.

That’s amazing. Last thing I’ll ask is do you have anything that you were surprised caught on as it did?
Honestly, I think my podcast is that. When I started my podcast, it was just my buddy and I chatting and telling each other stories. We’ve been really good friends for a very long time. But we became friends a little later in life. Like we became friends in our mid to late 20s. And I think that you can have so much life before you meet someone in that way, that then us telling each other stories that we never heard about each other, or us sharing experiences of Intel talking about it to the audience or having just a general post mortem about them…Because sometimes we go on the road together.

I think that the fact that people enjoy our friendship and enjoy those stories so much, really floored me. I did not see that coming. Like I think I make a funny podcast. And it’s fun to listen to, especially if you’re on a drive. But like, the way that people have engaged with us and really enjoy it and spend time with us. I did not fully see it coming.